Difficulties You Encounter Along the Macrobiotic Path
We know that every front has a back, and that something as big as macrobiotics must have an equally big backside to it. What is your personal macrobiotic stumbling block? What makes it hard for you to tow the line and keep with the program? If you could make one wish for your macrobiotic practice, what would that wish be? Join us to chat, console and inspire. Tell us your favorite excuse for resisting.
Sunday February 26, 2006
“Difficulties You Encounter Along the Macrobiotic Path”
Hosted by Ginat Rice.
Ginat
We know that every front has a back, and that something as big as macrobiotics must have an equally big backside to it.
What is your personal macrobiotic stumbling block? What makes it hard for you to tow the line and keep with the program?
If you could make one wish for your macrobiotic practice what would it be?
Let's chat, console and mutually inspire. Tell us your favorite resistance excuse.
Chick
I wish I could give up butter.
Rebecca
Yes, I love it so much- and I wish that the day to day planning and cooking could flow more easily
Sheldon
You don't have to give up butter. Just make your own with onions or carrots or squash or cabbage.
Chick
That isn't the kind of butter I crave.
Sheldon
Cravings can change if you want to try. When my daughter gave up ketchup sandwiches, I knew that anything could change.
Leigh
That question about what we'd most like to see in our life to make macrobiotics make more sense for us…well, it’s to have other macrobiotic people in my daily life
Rebecca
I went through a terribly excessive almond /tehini craze..
Sheldon
Create macrobiotic people in your life! One woman in our community invites her neighbors for a macro breakfast to get them interested in eating better. It works. Be creative; expand your social horizons and don't give up.
Ginat
I see that the first subject tonight is cravings. Can you understand in terms of yin and yang what you are craving and why?
Sheldon
Rebecca, often tehini or almonds are craved by people not eating enough beans or bean products such as tempeh or tofu or seitan. Think if that is what is happening to you.
Rebecca
Ahh- this is my newest understandings- the balance of protein to everything- and planning it in.
Klara
My wish would be that I were so focused that the meal would almost cook itself (like the magic wand) and most important, that I would never run out of new ideas.
Ginat
Klara, are you looking for magic answers, or are you lazy? (That's ok!)
Klara
No, I want to work more on focus, then I know things will flow better.
Ginat
What kind of person can be focused--yin or yang?
Klara
Yang would be more focused as it's bringing energies inward
Ginat
And what does it take to become yang in this respect?
Sheldon
Rebecca, start planning by making the following list. grain/bean/long cooked veg/short cooked veg (one or two different kinds). Then fill in the missing boxes. Do it at night but not when you are hungry and have to cook in a hurry.
Joanna
I sometimes dont eat enough in the morning and lunch because i tend to oversleep, and that limits the time i have to cook, than even with a great dinner i will still be very hungry at night
Ginat
Why do you oversleep? Too much yin? Bad habit? Avoidance?...
Joana
I’m not sure, it's been a problem for years
Leigh
When I think what do I really feel like eating, and tune into myself on that day, at that hour- its an approach with more ease
Ginat
What things are you able to get up on time for?
Ginat
We have cravings and time management as two issues. What else is difficult?
How about social considerations. No problem there?
Rebecca
I Summer Conference has been the best thing in my life!
Sheldon
Rebecca, it was the best thing in my life also for a number of years.
Ginat
How do you manage social eating? Colin? Millimacro?
Leigh
I’m cooking for a young person with illness and also cooking for healthy older son and his pregnant wife. I’m cooking all the time- glad too- but it feels like too much
Ginat
It's true. We need to find ways to cook AND have a life. Do you have some shortcuts?
Colin Larsen
I am confident yet humble about how I eat so as to set a good example with out agitating people
Chick
I go out to eat once a week with friends and I eat the fish and veg. on the menu.
Ginat
I sometimes go to a cafe, order tea, and don't drink it. I just want the social contact.
Rebecca
Hot water and lemon may be okay for you too
Rebecca
Millimacro, yes! And eating mostly a good meal before I go out, and then a little some thing there. I also bring rice/nori rolls and veggies to a great fish place.
Colin Larsen
There are many options that one can choose from on a regular restaurant menu that are good for occasional and festive times
Ginat
Social restriction doesn't seem like a big stumbling block. That's so nice to hear. I'm surprised!
Ginat
Are there any big problems that really make macrobiotics difficult for you? Or is it all cool?
Sheldon
Everything depends on your condition as to what to order at a restaurant. When I was very ill, my kids loved eating at Souen restaurant in New York. I took them to enjoy, but ate my own food that I brought from home. Now I have the freedom to enjoy much broader choices.
Colin Larsen
Macrobiotics is deeper than the ocean. It can be difficult to accurately interpret a situation and know what to do. The solutions are so many!
Ginat
Do any of you feel left out of the mainstream? Do you feel different and left out?
Gary
That the social aspects of sharing, even if you don't eat, are its own type of food
Sheldon
When the solutions are many, it is easier to play and not be up tight about every ingredient of each dish on a restaurant menu.
Ginat
Colin, I think each of us knows what to do on some level. It's getting in touch with that and honoring it.
Colin Larsen
That's the deepest, easiest and also the most difficult aspect of macrobiotics
Klara
Big Problems for me: Eating from boredom or emptiness, eating other foods that are around in my home, eating late
Chick
I have been macrobiotic for over 25 yrs. and i don't think that eating non-macro once a week is going to kill me.
Ginat
Back up a sec--what is "non-macro?"
Chick
Manicotti, for one
Sheldon
Chick: there are no rules, only guidelines. Your best guide is your feelings; if something feels OK and you don't suffer afterwards, enjoy whatever there is.
Ginat
What is non-macro (whatever that means) about manicotti?
Chick
It contains cheese.
Ginat
Chick, is chesse "non-macro?"
Chick
Yes
Ginat
In that case, we are practicing micro-biotics.
Sheldon
Klara: if you have trouble with eating late, try not eating at all in the mornings. In time you will get used to eating only two meals: then you later binges will be easier to handle.
Millimacro
Every food is macrobiotic - sugar can save your life - we need it sometimes
Leigh
|Non-macro is mainstream thinking, without questioning within oneself , willing to accept the cultural standard
Ginat
Ooh, dangerous ground there...
Sheldon
Millimacro, when can sugar save your life?
Rebecca
For me NOW a stomach ache from cheese is "killing” me—nonmacro would be commercial salt and non-organic veggies !
Klara
What works is taking the time to create a wonderful dish and savoring it
Ginat
When do you do this, and how can you encourage it?
Chick
What is micro-biotics about cheese?
Millimacro
A diabetic may need it at a point in time to save their life
Ginat
If you exclude cheese, or anything, you are limiting your world. This is not large life, but limited life--micro.
Ginat
We eat non-organic all the time. We just don't get enough variety here to sustain us. So we make that choice
Rebecca
Actually- I typed too fast- there's not enough good organics here all the time either! Bless all our nurishment!
Chick
Macrobiotics is about limiting-- limiting what is wrong for our bodies.
Millimacro
Macrobiotics is also about doing the best you can
Leigh
How about seeing it as macro being a fresh point of view, rather than a response honed by others
Ginat
Yes, that could be. But is thinking in terms of yin and yang must macrobiotics necessarily mean different? It's the most traditional system there is. All peoples do it, knowingly or not.
Sheldon
Chick: macrobiotics is about expanding, not limiting. It is about freedom that comes from understanding balance and working with it within the limits of your condition.
Chick
So then, it's okay to eat meat and dairy and eggs and all the things Michio has said not to eat?
Ginat
Yes, limitation does indeed allow freedom. But it does not define macrobiotics.
Colin Larsen
Michio eats those things
Ginat
It's okay if that is what you want to create. We are free. Look at Michio's condition--do you want that for yourself?
Chick
And what is his condition?
Ginat
Michio recently was diagnosed with colon cancer, and had a major operation. He is free, and created that knowingly. That is macrobiotics, not being a fearful slave.
Chick
Doesn't sound good to me.
Rebecca
In July Michio had recovered so well- taught classes and I saw him hurrying around and looking better than before!
Klara
I can take the time to cook when I have the rest of my life not pressuring me to be doing other things - or other interests wanting to come first
Ginat
Who allows that pressure? Only you, of course. If not, who's life are you living?
Rebecca
The key is to know the right amount and how to balance it, and having it once a month is so different than every day
Colin Larsen
Balancing food is a tool that helps us develop insight into the nature of life and existence, including the fact that all health will fail. It's natural
Ginat
Back to difficulties--any rebels out there, who just don't want to bother with making the effort? What do you do?
Colin Larsen
I am by nature a rebel and lazy. I persevere. That is the key to my success
Ginat
I confess--I'm lazy to garden. It's a weakness. But I want it just not quite enough...
Colin Larsen
(Limited) success. I hope I have been sincere. I am sure that what ever I experience, I am attracting it
Ginat
Sheldon's key is relaxing!
Colin Larsen
I do plenty of that
Leigh
My preference would be to put the attention into sharing cooking, finding a match to that kind of life, rather than getting so very good at it myself
Ginat
Are you attracting this in your life? You have to be sincere in wanting it.
Rebecca
Like sprouts on the counter- it has to be a routine- like menu planning- ahh I need to persevere- thanks, Collin!
Klara
Does lazy perhaps mean what I value is not what others value??
Ginat
Why do you think this, Klara?
Klara
I enjoy being on the computer, so my time goes there - I don't think I'm lazy about cooking, just putting my energies into what I love more.
Colin Larsen
I see things as simple, such as when I don't eat enough grain I am more likely to slip on the ice
Leigh
I have inner conflict having lived both in isolation and in a rural macro community with others
Ginat
What is your conflict then?
Colin Larsen
What do you mean by isolation?
Leigh
Enjoying we have wherever we are, doing our best day to day makes for peace. Yet in envisioning, there’s a chance for greater joy, just as I believe macrobiotics is about people not just individuals. When energies are joined in harmony, and macrobiotics allow s a terrific chance for harmony, then we really get our juices flowing. My vision is for small groups living in proximity to share growing food, cooking, talking intimately, evolving macrobiotics through a way of life
Colin Larsen
Need more be said?
Ginat
Yes, we do.
Ginat
Consider those priorities--you go for what you enjoy more that for what is essential, i.e. cooking.
Sheldon
Everything is secondary to cooking, as our first priority is eating. When we don't eat right, everything else we do is affected sooner or later.
Leigh
Conflict means being split, sincere in two directions. I’m having trouble getting behind a new direction, the old one being making peace with where you are and at the same time holding a vision for how you’d really like to live
Ginat
"I love myself the way I am and I want to change..." Tell us your vision! Does it conflict with making peace?
Chick
In consideration of what we have been talking about today, tell me what eating right is.
Ginat
Aha, fingers are flying! Eating right, of course, means balancing for your condition. How can you determine that? By the way you feel...
Colin Larsen
I think that it is more why you eat what you do, not what you eat that is the macrobiotic question.
Chick
After you determine how you feel, what do you eat?
Sheldon
Eating right cannot be easily defined. It includes consideration of climate, condition, mood, understanding, desire to maintain balance. There is no magical answer. I can feel its meaning easier than I can express it.
Rebecca
After cooking and eating carefully for a while you may love feeling so well- you'll want to get a timer to buzz you back into the kitchen for a while
Ginat
I personally enjoy feeling well, so I eat things that support that. For me, it means that I stay pretty macro-centered and don't stray much. It just doesn't tempt me to go "off." Does that help?
Chick
Let us speak in specifics, not high-flown phrases.
Colin Larsen
It is not quantifiable, so we have guidelines to help us learn
Ginat
I have rice at almost every meal.
Ginat
I never touch: dairy, sugar, meat, even bread!
Ginat
I have dessert almost daily, chew my food, and make condiments and pickles.
Chick
But you said manicotti was okay, yet that is dairy.
Ginat
I didn't say it's okay for me. I said that everything is macrobiotic.
Chick
There are foods that aren't macrobiotic, or else there wouldn't be all the books written about them.
Ginat
No, Chick. There are foods that are recommended for daily use, occasional use, and to avoid for improved health. Everything, by definition, is macrobiotic.
Ginat
We still have five minutes....write out your favorite grips. What's hard? What's stopping you and holding you back? Where are you resistant?
Rebecca
I am still somehow resistant to menu planning -
Ginat
Because...
Rebecca
Spontaneity has always been my way!
Ginat
Does it work for you?
Rebecca
Only partially, cause I tend to miss the pickles or sea greens some days- for me that makes a difference
Sheldon
Y'all need to distinguish between rules and guidelines. Rules are made to be broken; guidelines are always OK and don't need to be monitored.
Ginat
Let's each determine one step that we want to take, and try it out this week. Everybody make a wish...!
Chick
Thank you Sheldon for the butter substitute. I can do that.
Ginat
You're great, Chick. Who else has a resolution?
Rebecca
We'll see about menus here in CT
Chick
Au revoir, Ginat.
Rebecca
Thank you Ginat and everyone!
Gary
Thank you Ginat and Shledon for sharing all your wisdom with us!
Ginat
Thanks to you all! Come back next week to chat, and next month for the next time together with me. Good night!
Food Issues
A Chat Hosted by Ginat Rice, Sunday March 26, 2006
Ginat:
Greetings everyone. Let's start with yin and yang and what's your favorite food....and what it says about you. Are you a salty dog, or a cream puff?
Jana
My favorite is tabouli
Bob
Probably nuts and seeds
Bob
Probably a cream puff
Jana
Both, but more so creamy
Ginat
Cream puffs--more yin; nuts and seeds--more yang. Does that suit your personalities?
Linda
Just a Hello and Good Bye from the Pacific Macrobiotic Conference (PMC) in San Francisco; see you at the next chat
Ginat
Great to hear from you! All my love and best regards to you all!
Ginat
So let's go on. What is difficult about food for you?
Bob
I have a condition that's keeps me rather careful about snacking. And yes, suits my personality
Jana
Can you elaborate please, Ginat?
Ginat
Yes. Do you have cravings? Do you eat something and then regret it? Do you "binge" (so-called. What'sgoing on?
Bob
I like too many yin foods.
Ginat
What does this mean? And do you know why?
Ginat
Attraction to yin foods means what--that you are too yin, or too yang? Do you know? Tell me about yourself. Are you a big person or small? Do you like physical activities or more mental? What's your favorite food?
Bob
My guess is that I'm too yin
Jana
I postpone eating until I have time to prepare food -- then I get so hungry, I binge.
Ginat
What suggestions can anyone give here? I have some ideas that work for me...
Jana
Too yang, I believe
Bob
I'm tall and thin, and I'm a pianist so I've spent a good deal of my time sitting at the piano, more mental activity.
Jana
As for me, I am average height, 50 lbs too much -- like mental activities better, but if I was a better weight, I'd probably like more physical activities than I do now
Ginat
OK, good descriptions. Both Bob and Jana sound more on the yin side. Bob craves yin. So is he balanced, or un-? What could help him?
CPB
Hello, Joining in from frosty Rhode Island.
Bob
Ok, here's the topper, I've been diagnosed with a low grade prostate cancer, a yang cancer
Ginat
Any cancer can be either yin or yang. For example, breast cancer can be yan. So we need to look further into it. Tell us more about your habits, likes and dislikes, food patterns, etc.
Bob
I've adopted a fairly rigid Macrobiotic diet, but I've been a vegetarian for years. I do like yin, chocolate, maple syrup and such but I've cut them out of my diet.
Ginat
When you use the word "rigid" it sets off alarms in my mind. Are you managing on will power? How do you control your cravings? Anyone else on will power and cravings control?
Bob
That is a problem. I don't have any cravings in general other than I'm hungry a lot. I am under the guidance of a macrobiotic counselor.
Ginat
I'm glad you have a counselor. I hope you feel good with each other. Hunger is a sign of wanting yin. How do you get good quality yin foods?
Bob
I do snack on pumpkin and sunflower seeds, apple butter, apples…
Jana
That does not work, I find. The macro foods are filling so that, if you have the time for regular meals, you should never be hungry.
Ginat
Is this the case for you--are you sometimes hungry, or unsatisfied?
Vana
It seems to have much to do with balance in daily life , activities, and lifestyle in an inclusive way, and how it is gone about.
Ginat
Yes, Vana, I agree--"macro" biotics definitely includes our life style as a whole, our thinking and point of view. How do you stay relaxed and centered?
Bob
I don't know. I enjoy sweet vegetables a lot and I enjoy macrobiotic cooking and the results.
Ginat
Where do you fall off?
Bob
I'm satisfied after a meal, but I soon become hungry again, maybe in an hour or so.
Ginat
Ah, this is a good hint. Can you give us a typical meal? How much grain? How much beans? Are you a chewer--50x per mouthful?
Jana
With me, it's definitely the time factor that’s difficult.
Ginat
How do you manage when you do it well, Jana
Jana
Actually - it's more like having too little time to cook.
Vana
When I am relaxed and centered I give myself a lot--morning stretching, bathing or body scrub, meditation, walk, even more. It takes a lot of finding a routine for myself.
Ginat
There was a question before about being too hungry to cook....in those times I prepare a dish of noodles in broth, and then I continue to cook after I eat it. It calms me down and lets me relax into the rest of the cooking. Having a routine definitely helps, and being flexible with it is important.
Ginat
When you are not relaxed and centered, do you have less time, Vana, or does it just seem like it?
Bob
I don't really fall off except I'm probably eating too many seeds. I'm eating about the right portions and chew well. I do eat beans, 3 or 4 times a week. My counselor says to eat more protein, tofu, tempeh, etc.
Ginat
My first impression is that you may need more proteins, like beans and bean products. We eat them 2x a day, one at lunch, the other at dinner. If you are craving seeds, it could means lack of protein or oil. Beans often help with this.
Bob
Is there a problem with snacking in general?
Ginat
The way to know whether any activity serves you well is what it signifies. Snacking means you’re too yang--you're looking for ways to expand and relax. If you are truly free, you can snack, and you can not snack, and feel good either way.
Bob
Does being hungry mean that one is too yang?
Ginat
Yes, being hungry means one is yang (sometimes too much so, sometimes naturally so). SVD, sweet vegetable drink, is an excellent way to balance cravings, relax and get centered. It's everyone's best remedy.
LA
Hello, Ginat, It's not on the topic you are on now, but I have been cooking macrobiotically for a long time. I still wonder whether to rinse rice or not. I buy bulk from bins, so feel it needs rinsing, but does that or does that not lower vitamin content? If that is too off topic, no problem. Just throwing that out there. Thanks, LouAnn
Ginat
Fine question, LouAnn. I always rinse rice. Vitamins do not disappear with washing. The rice tastes much better when it is not dirty!
Ginat
What foods help with fatigue and exhaustion?
Vana
Sweet Vegetable Juice
Ginat
We can also deal with fatigue by chewing well, eating less (!) and, yes, resting.
Bob
Can you describe the sweet vegetable
Ginat
SVD is a combination of 4 specific vegetables, cooked in boiling water in this order--onion, carrot, squash and cabbage. 1/4 cup each in 4 cups of water, no salt. Cook it covered for 30 minutes, strain and drink warm. You can make enough for about 3 days.
Ginat
Who has dreams? Do you see a connection to what you've eaten? Anyone dream they are flying? Any dreamers out there?
gxpark1234
I have crazy dreams, and i think i am sanpaku
CPB
Does a dream that reoccurs that involves an unsual house with secret rooms always near water have anything to do with what one eats?
Ginat
Wow! What's your own take on it? Everything has to do with food.
LA
I dream I'm flying very often. What does that mean?
Ginat
Aha! Flying means too much fruit, too yin. You're up in the clouds! Come back down to earth! Anyone have dreams that they are falling? That would be a yang symptom.
Bob
Thanks, Ginat. You've been very helpful. I'm signing off. Bob
Ginat
What about you working stiffs? How do you 9 to 5'ers manage with slow-food preparation? What are your best tips?
CPB
Food preparation is difficult when work keeps you away from a kitchen for at least 10 hours a day. That is why eating properly can be a real challenge. I have not figured out how to deal with it yet.
Jana
I'm not managing well ... I'm good for about a week, then fall back into "easy" mode.
Ginat
Let's think how to make Easy = Good and handle work demands. They are real, whether it’s a job or children, or life in general. One idea is to cook once a day for two meals, then make something quick to supplement the second meal. Cook enough grain for 24 hours, enough beans for 3 meals, long-cooked veggies for two meals, and a fresh veg at every meal. Remember to make desserts. They are essential!
Vana
What kind of desserts?
Ginat
Dessert by definition means something relaxing. So soft and creamy is best; never hard and crunchy--that is not a dessert. We love amasake, kanten, chestnuts, compote.....what other favorites are there out there?
Joana
Sometimes it takes me two hours to prepare lunch, and I do it together with my sister. I don't know how we can be so slow preparing food; its like we don't even realize that time elapses so fast.
Ginat
Sometimes meal preparation can be long and involved, and sometimes short and sweet. This is flexibility.
CPB
How do you make food that you can carry to work for your lunch that does not have to be heated up or prepared in some way that would not be available at work?
Ginat
I find no need to heat up food, even in the winter. Room temperature is fine. I don't eat it-refrigerator cold. We make lunches to go whenever we need to, putting an entire meal in a lunch box and packing it up with our chopsticks. We are macros on the go, any time, any where.
Vana
OK, good plan
Ginat
How about....gas? Everyone ok on that end?
Joana
One question
Ginat
Yes, Joana?
Joana
Besides rice syrup and barley malt, what other grain syrups are good for making desserts? It seems that they have run out here in Lisbon. I have been waiting for 2 weeks without cooking desserts.
Ginat
Those are the two grain syrups I use most. I also use fruit juices often, or eat fruit cooked with a pinch of salt. You have good quality North Atlantic sea salt in Lisbon!
Jana
Stewed apples are helpful.
Joana
Yes I make apple sauce because that does not need to be sweetened.
Ginat
How about late night snacking? Who does it, when and why? How do you feel with it? About it?
Joana
Lately I’ve been feeling hungry at night so I snack. For me the reason is that i have been waking up late in the morning...
Ginat
Better not to snack--it helps you stay up late. Better to listen to your body and sleep when it's tired. Staying up late makes you yang, and that's why you want to eat. It's a non-natural cycle.
Jana
I always grab the wrong, but easy thing -- and load up like there's no tomorrow
Ginat
Jana, there is always a tomorrow. That's number one. Remember that you know this. Then look for a good quality food. Prepare it in advance so you won't get caught. Most of all, make a choice about what you want, how you want to live, what you want for your life.
Jana
Interesting, I didn't know that, Ginat.
CPB
I just read an interesting article addressing an idea that many long time macrobiotic eaters are eating too close. The suggestion is that fish, foul, yogurt and certain cheese be added to the diet on a regular basis. Any thoughts on this?
Ginat
By “close” do you mean too narrow? I find that variety is perhaps the #1 most important factor in being a satisfied macro (or any other person!) I do not find that foul, yogurt or cheese serve me. They mess up my health, and don't give me anything. They are too extreme to easily balance. I get variety from cooking styles, food choices, cutting techniques, ingredients ...
gxpark1234
Ms. Rice, I have a question. About 2 years ago while I was smoking marijuana and thinking very hard about money, my right eye started to make subtle cracking noises; then my left eye started to make the same type of noise.. I later looked in the mirror and noticed my right eye had been pulled up and was bigger/expanded while my left eye got shifted down. Doctors aren’t able to help me. I feel so imbalanced. Any advice?
Ginat
Gxpark1234, your condition is clearly too yin, as you know from the mind-expanding "food" you were taking. Your body is responding rather naturally to it with a yin discharge. Make sense?
gxpark1234
I think so..
Ginat
Right side--more upward flowing energy; left side, more downward. This is natural, universal, and unknown to doctors. We need to teach them.
gxpark1234
How can I fix this imbalance with my eyes? More yang foods or a balanced diet?
Ginat
You need to become more centered, which for you would be balance. Stay close to the center with food, thought, activity...
gxpark1234
Ginat, do you think this is curable? Will I become balanced again.. sorry for all the questions but it’s destroyed my life.
Ginat
Gx--everything is curable, because everything changes. It's easy to become balanced--it requires a decision, and then some knowledge. You can do it!
gxpark1234
Thank u Ginat, do u have a personal website or consultation service for a more detailed advice and help on my condition? An email perhaps?
Ginat
Gx--Everyone can always write me with any questions. My email is Shelgin@netvision.net.il.
gxpark1234
Great.. thank u
Vana
Give the marijuana a rest for your best interest. It takes a long time to release the THC from the herb to get it out of the brain.
gxpark1234
I’ve quit over 1 year ago.
Vana
What helps a frail long time sick person with no contractive power to eliminate? I’m cooking for an ill person; she eats only good quality food but has declined and doesn’t digest
Ginat
Vana, that person need some good quality food, and perhaps some umeshokuzu. What is he holding on to in his thoughts? Does he have the spiritual power to eliminate it? An older person may need softer cooked rice cream, and umeshokuzu to get her strength back.
Ginat
Last topics for tonight--eating out, traveling, or excretion: Choose your favorite one!
LA
Eating out, please!
Ginat
OK, the most yang person is the one who is first to answer. How do you manage to eat out and stay well?
Jana
Eating out is tough, unless your dining partner is on board with your choice of restaurants/foods
LA
Ginat, my problem eating out is, even thought I can get good macrobiotic-type food, at restaurants such as Pei Wei--brown rice, veggies with tofu--it always is so, so salty, even if I ask for less salty. I need to eat out pretty often, but it is hard to get good macrobiotic-type food anywhere. Any suggestions?
Ginat
Do you need to eat out for work? Socially? For convenience? There is always a better way if you look for it. Can you bring your own rice with you?
Jana
Good Earth is good for whole foods.
Ginat
Yet there's nothing like home cooking.
CPB
We eat regularly at an Asian Place that now carries brown rice on the menu. All it took was asking them to do it and they were glad to make it happen.
Ginat
Any other comments, or shall we say good night? I don't know what time it is in Australia, but Klara knows that it's 11:18 here in Israel.
Klara
I’m just barely keeping my eyes open.
Jana
Thank you, Ginat -- hope to chat with you again in the near future.
CPB
Thank you for the chat as I have learned plenty and it is so nice to share ideas.
Gary
Thanks so much for the wonderful and helpful chat Ginat!
Joana
Good night , and thanks Ginat.
Klara
You didn't go further about gas…
Ginat
Guess we'll have to hold back on this one till next time!
Jana
Nice to have fellow macrobiotic'ers to chat with
Ginat
Good night everyone, and a million thanks. It's great fun being together this way! Let's do it again next month, and meanwhile enjoy your chats next week.
What Does It Take To Be Macrobiotic?
Many people understand that macrobiotics is the best way to live, yet they have difficulty following through. Of course it is natural for us all to go in waves of stronger and weaker practice, but is there some underlying quality that one needs to truly stay consistent? And how much is enough? Is there a bottom line that we dare not cross?
Chat with Ginat Rice at CyberMacro Sunday April 30, 2006.
Ginat
Welcome to the Sunday chat! Today's topic is: What does it take to "be macrobiotic?" Many people understand that macrobiotics is the best way to live, but they don't follow through with it. Why is that? What is required to truly embrace macrobiotics?
Charles
Understanding, I suppose
Ginat
Let's begin by making it personal. Can you tell us your experience, Chas, when you say "understanding." Do feel like you understand enough to embrace macrobiotics?
Charles
No, I've tried to balance with veggies and grains but the balance is too narrow.
Charles
I develop cravings for sweets.
Gary
Just a quick comment
Charles
OK
Ginat
So then, Chas, do you have a question?
Ginat
And I would ask yet another question--is understanding the key to a good practice for you? ...anyone?
Gp
Understanding is always a good key element but doesn't understanding come with experience?
Charles
It seems the conventional diet of animal products and yin foods is easier to stay on
Ginat
Are you asking a question here?
Charles
I am curious why that seems to be the case for me.
Gp
I was replying to your question.
Dizzy
I've read and have several books on MB but just don't quite understand how to start. It is too much to just dive in and do it all, I've tried that. How do you get started?
Ginat
I agree that it's too hard to dive into deep waters. The most important foods to begin with are brown rice and miso soup. All the rest can, and should wait. If you start too fast, you'll finish quickly too.
Ginat
GP and Chas--are you asking specific "how to" questions, or answering my philosophical pondering of whether knowledge is the key to macrobiotic practice?
Klara
I have two kinds of understandings. Intellectually I think I understand, but I don't feel my body actually does. Otherwise I don't think I would eat the way I do.
Ginat
Very good. This means that you don't truly, or totally, understand. Why do you think this is?
Charles
I've read some books and practiced but I failed to curb cravings
Chas
I think I may not understand how yin-yang works with acid-alkaline
Ginat
And why is that important to you? What will that knowledge bring you? What happens if you don't know that?
Gp
Ginat...I did ask a specific question which I submitted through the ask line to the moderator....I was commenting on your understanding question and put a couple of question marks on the end seeing if you would agree
Reelj
An effective way to begin the macrobiotic diet is to eliminate refined sugar and dairy right off the bat. yes, cravings will come as a result, but you will no longer be reaching for those foods to satisfy them.
Ginat
We can talk about all these practical issues, like cravings, beginning practice, etc.....but you're not answering my question. What is necessary in order to practice macrobiotics? Hold on, GP....
Dizzy
Understanding, Yes. But how do you get started?
Ginat
How have you started so far?
Reelj
Support
Gp
A desire to live more in tune with one's environment
Snoopybd7
Sacrifice is probably very important to determine whether one can stick with macro
Klara
Scratch that. I meant the coordination between my head and my body. As I eat, I am not fully aware of what the consequences really will be.
Ginat
But why is that? Reflect on this a moment......why aren't you in touch with yourself?
Ginat
Whoa, sacrifice! Comments out there?
Reelj
Yes...
Reelj
Sacrifice in the short run...
Snoopybd7
No, in the long run too
Reelj
But closing one door opens many others
Gp
I'm trying to get remotivated. I followed the macro cuisine pretty good for about a year and then due to some unfortunate events I got off track and seem to have real trouble getting going again...any suggestions?
Ginat
Let's get some general feedback. What is hindering you Gp?
Snoopybd7
That’s true too
Dizzy
I am also diabetic and wonder if the MB way of eating will have too many starches for this problem?
Ginat
Let's put this on our "practical questions" list for later. Don't forget it, but hold on to it for the moment.
Charles
If a practice is genuine then it should be easy to follow
Veganmacrochick
do you think with others around you eating the same way it's easier to curb cravings and eat 'better'?
Ginat
What do you mean by a genuine practice?
Charles
Valid biologically
Gp
I wish I knew the answer. I felt so good eating correctly and chewing completely but I got off track and seem to have a hard time moving forward again. I might would be easier with support. Coming here is also a step towards motivating me.
Ginat
"Valid biologically." Raw foodists say that they are biologically valid. Are you satisfied with this level of judgment?
Charles
A lot of groups make claims, I don't know who is right anymore
Reelj
Regarding the nature of "sacrifice," as a single parent, spending hours in the kitchen meant "sacrificing" hours I might have spent on other endeavors for the headaches, stomach aches, earaches and emotional swings my daughter would have otherwise experienced. So "sacrifice" is a bit of an illusion.
veganmacrochick
It's not sacrifice if you know you are healing. It's not sacrifice to know the next day you won't feel lousy. I mentioned recently in my group that I prefer (usually) the delayed need gratification.
Ginat
Yes, but.....what about the day when you are so-called "healed." Is that the goal of macrobiotics, making it worth the "struggle."
Gp
Isn't it more about what's right for you? (sorry the counselor in me makes me hand you back the question)
Klara
I don't see an immediate change, reaction, neither good nor bad. I do believe food takes a while to have effect, and I need to continue on blind faith, which takes well, faith, and sometimes it's just easier to eat what's handy.
Ginat
So now we are getting a bit deeper. What is the role of faith, or belief, in adopting macrobiotics?
Reelj
I think the word is intuition, and it is there from the start
Snoopybd7
For people who are new to macrobiotic, it is a huge sacrifice that most don’t seem willing to take
Ginat
I still come back to my original questions--what is the bottom line that determines whether or not we follow a macrobiotic lifestyle?
Charles
Right, intuition or God's grace is the source of knowing what's right
Reelj
In Swedenborg's writing, "faith" is the internal acknowledgment of truth, not something you simply hope for... a recognition that something is right.
Ginat
Bravo! Bravo! Now tell me how Swendenborg applies to you personally!
Gp
Think of it more as re-education than sacrifice. Just like learning a new job or skill...you'd spend the time to learn these things because of the payoff.
Snoopybd7
I think someone that can embrace the philosophy and incorporate it in their life would determine if they would follow the diet
Veganmacrochick
I'm confused Reelj are you saying spending time cooking well cause mood swings in your child? I am a single mom and my daughter LOVES being in the kitchen helping me cook, snacking on the seaweed, etc
Reelj
From my point of view, macrobiotic principles are eternal natural laws... patterns of behavior that govern life, and we are not able to live OUTSIDE those laws... we are not able to violate those laws. When we live contrary to them, those very laws violate US.
Reelj
Just the opposite. BECAUSE I cook, I eliminate the mood swings, the head aches, etc.
Ginat
What does it take to embrace the philosophy and incorporate it into your life style? I continue to ask....
Ginat
Yes, macrobiotics defines natural law, and everyone is subject to it. Yet we resist. WHY?
Snoopybd7
You would need to throw out your old way of life and have a new one
Ginat
Yes, snoopy. What does it take to throw out the old and make a change like this?
Reelj
What does it take to embrace it? Experience with it. One embraces things in time, through positive experience.
Charles
We shouldn't resist something that is beneficial
Snoopybd7
It takes an inspiration of some sort, it could be going to a cooking class and tasting the food, hearing a lecture, or having a serious illness
Gp
We resist because we have grown up knowing something different....those principles are ingrained in us and the natural laws are foreign to what we were taught...someone who grew up with MB as a value and principle would not resist
Ginat
Is this your personal experience? The way you say it, it sounds easy. Yet we do resist. WHY do you (I) personally resist? How do we maintain being inspired. Do you really think a born-macrobiotic person doesn't resist? Ho ho.
Snoopybd7
Most people are not used to being so conscious about food and environment. They just eat and enjoy
Veganmacrochick
OK What about family members who don't get it and don't understand that you will be upset if they give your child "just a tiny piece of chocolate" with dairy and sugar too when you're vegan?
Gp
Nothing easy about it at all. I'm not sure why'd you resist without knowing more about you. Let's say it would be easier for someone growing up in an MB environment to resist...but there are always forces pulling us one way or the other
Ginat
(Let's go back to the "ask" window please) Yes, many of us just eat and enjoy. What level of consciousness is this?
Gp
Unconscious consciousness
Snoopybd7
The ignorant level? which can be bliss it seems
Klara
We've talked about this before - it takes MAKING the decision - yet it seems to me it's a decision that I need to make again and again. Could it be then that I haven't truly made the decision???
Ginat
Hat's off, Klara. This is what I'm digging for here. It takes making (and remaking) a decision. What do you think about your question?
Ginat
Eat and enjoy is a sensorial level of living. How can we raise that level?
Reelj
You don't raise it; it is one of many levels you incorporate into your life
Snoopybd7
I am not sure. People seem to be so comfortable in that place that they wouldn’t want to leave it
Gp
By making a conscious effort to make the decision to eat well. Your question seems to say there can't be both healthy MB eating and sensorial pleasure....are you suggesting that it should be different?
Klara
Perhaps I've only made the decision for one meal, or one day, instead of making it for a longer time period
Ginat
Can you extend it for a day? People feel comfortable in an easy place until it's not easy any more, and they must change. But we can choose to raise our level to an intellectual, or maybe social, understanding, and then make a new decision.
Ginat
Healthy and sensorial are one and the same for me. I'm saying that only sensorial is not enough.
Ginat
Who here can say that s/he has made a decision to embrace a macrobiotic way of life?
Snoopybd7
People who eat regular food are not as sensorial about food so they can't appreciate the taste of natural foods
Charles
I haven't embraced the full spectrum of macrobiotics just the healthful food part
Gp
Embracing the diet is one thing. I've embraced the diet and understand it's best for me. But still I struggle with it....there is lot's to MB besides diet though that I have not embraced
Ginat
Thank you for that answer, Chas. Are you fine with where you are right now, with just the food and not the ideas behind it? What is your struggle, Gp? Why do you hesitate?
Snoopybd7
I feel that I live a macro life, partly because I live in a macro family, and also because I don’t think much about being macro, I just am. I just eat like its normal
Veganmacrochick
Though that's what American diet especially in restaurants promote right?
Gp
The struggle is just getting started and sticking with it again.
Charles
I haven't had full success with the food part yet. When or if I do then I'll progress to the next step because it's been validated to me through the food
Gp
This is helping!
Gp
That was my point with my statement earlier snoopy
Veganmacrochick
I'm not sure at what level. I feel I have made an attempt to embrace macrobiotics. I soak my grains and beans, eat my seaweeds, I try to alternate foods, get fresh air, enjoy my healthy food, sit with a happy environment and eating peacefully with my daughter. I lovingly cut my veggies, and make my meals. But then eat pretzels or something so am I missing something? am I not macrobiotic?
Ginat
Beautiful description--thank you so much. Whether or not you "are" macro is another, big question that we'll postpone for the moment. What are you missing? --both understanding and application. We need both. That's the answer.
Ginat
What is the struggle, Gp?
Snoopybd7
I think you need to get to a point where you don’t have to make a decision about being macro, you just are. Just like how people eat regular food like burgers, they just eat it, no thinking
Gp
The struggle is making the decision and commitment to make it a part of life rather than part time
Gp
And to think I was just going to watch and learn.
Veganmacrochick
So what understanding and application?
Ginat
The understanding is learning the natural order. The application is making a decision that this is how I want to live. Then we create support, we create habits, we create what we want...if we've really decided that we want it.
Veganmacrochick
Except we don't have macrobiotic fast food drive-thru’s
Ginat
Thank the Lord! The bigger the front, the bigger the back. So again, let's reflect together--what does it take to stay consistent with macrobiotics? Hint--the answer is hidden in the question
Snoopybd7
That would be a good idea, you could just drive through and get a rice ball
Gp
Continuous, conscious decision to do it
Veganmacrochick
If it were healthy macrobiotic food I couldn't imagine getting bigger
Ginat
Gp, tell us more. How do we do this?
Snoopybd7
we need constant inspiration too
Ginat
I'm fishing for a specific activity that let's us be inspired. It's not outside ourselves...
Gp
Our desire takes us to those places where we create habits and create what we want
Dizzy
How do you create the support when your spouse and all your friends aren't MB?
Ginat
Nice, Gp. Is this your experience?
Snoopybd7
I would like to know that too
Gp
|I have experienced that but not with MB however.
Gp
I know there are a couple groups locally that would be good to get involved in for that support
Ginat
So, Gp, you haven't quite made a decision yet, as I understand. Out side support is nice and fine, but it takes something else. What is that?
Ginat
Klara has already told us.
Gp
The more committed embracement?
Chick
Make the decision to be macrobiotic one day at a time.
Ginat
Yes, commitment, in the form of a decision, and, the biggest tool--self-reflection. This is the way to stay committed, to stay inspired, to keep the decision alive.
Gp
The baby steps approach?
Snoopybd7
Until you just are macro, and you don’t have to decide anymore
Klara
Aha, to be consistent means to create the habit - which also means having it always first on my mind, before other automatic things that I do
Ginat
Maybe in a way we constantly are deciding.
Gp
That's where I struggle right now Klara
Gp
Very true Ginat
Snoopybd7
How about having only macro ingredients and foods in the home?
Ginat
It's natural for all cycles to ebb and wane...to go up and down. Is there a bottom line you will not cross? Maybe this is one--only macro ingredients. Yet that's somewhat of a crutch....
Gp
When I first did MB diet it was easy to remain conscious about chewing, food etc....now when I try I forget...e.g. just remembering to chew...I start out well...but before I know it my mind has gone somewhere else
Veganmacrochick
As having stuff prepared so when you get starving all of a sudden you don't just inhale some junk
Ginat
Very good..
Snoopybd7
There seems to be a problem with having too much rules to follow and becoming overwhelmed
Ginat
Food is so primal, that we have to create our food habits on the deepest level, truly reflecting on the source of our resistance.
Snoopybd7
Being too rigid having to follow exactly what the book says
Ginat
These are very important issues here, about rules and rigidity. Such a practice is doomed to fail. Nothing is more important to a human than freedom, and that actually is the ultimate goal of macrobiotics.
Snoopybd7
But it seems to be a hindrance for many, the rigidity
Ginat
Perhaps we should finish today by sharing some reflections about how any of us have seen / understood / experienced freedom through a macrobiotic way of life.
Gp
I didn't find it all that strict really...unless you look at a healing diet which can be rigid
Veganmacrochick
I try to remember to always have cooked rice on hand
Veganmacrochick
Right when people say to me "you're not allowed to eat that" I say I'm allowed to eat anything, I choose to not eat...........
Snoopybd7
Exactly
Gp
Yes, it's all about choices
Ginat
One sees a healing diet as rigid, another as precise and a gift....choices, indeed
Gp
Yep
Ginat
Where is the freedom in macrobiotics?
Charles
Freedom from sickness
Ginat
Freedom to choose sickness. Freedom to heal sickness.
Snoopybd7
I see that in macrobiotics, I am free to move in any direction, towards health, sickness, towards yin or yang, its about playing with life
Gp
MB people still get sick....they just recover better and faster so I hear
Gp
So the freedom is in the choices?
Ginat
Choices, again. Macrobiotics is the rule book for life. Do you agree? We do what we like with it. That's the freedom.
Charles
That's a neat definition
Snoopybd7
Yet many macros don’t practice like they are free
Ginat
Friends, we are powerful creators, physicalized images of all Creation. What joy! Many "macrobiotic" friends sometimes forget this, and get stuck in food issues. Let's clarify our goals, uncover our resistance, and make active choices on-going. Everything is a game. We all have a good time.
Gp
Thanks to all of you today for allowing me to chat with you and for the inspiration I've received here
Snoopybd7
Now you can go and choose the direction you want
Ginat
It's a love fest! That is the true reality. See you all next Sunday on line, and in one month for my next time to moderate. Keep chewing--your grains and your experiences!
Veganmacrochick
I think it's all around
Veganmacrochick
You mean if we're macrobiotic we get sick too? ::wink
Klara
Freedom - that I choose my life as I decide
Ginat
A big om-shalom for all of us! Happy trails!
Snoopybd7
Thank you
Gary
Thanks, Ginat
Ginat
Thank you so much, Gary!
“We need to embrace the simple truth that most people eat according to ingrained emotional and sexual patterns. No matter how much nutrition a doctor knows or how much yin-yang cosmology a macrobiotic practitioner recognizes, these can be overruled by these deep primal compulsions.
In our first days of life we were given protection, warmth, love and food. Whenever protection, warmth or love is missing, we will turn to food primal security. Frustrated or over-charged sexual powers can overwhelm the logical mind. The chocolate industry is one of the main beneficiaries of this. These lifetime food habits are often difficult to see accurately, or we may even be totally blind to them, which can lead to addictive behavior.”
--Phiya
“Who is Macrobiotic?”
A Moderated Chat Hosted by Ginat Rice. Sunday January 29, 2006
People sometimes say they are "80%" macrobiotic, or "90%." What does this mean? Some say, "Oh, I went off macrobiotics because I had ice cream (or whatever)." I have also heard people say, "Macrobiotics is too extreme." Is such a balanced diet extreme? When is someone "macrobiotic" and when not?
Ginat
Good evening, everyone. Welcome to MacroChat #2 with me, Ginat Rice. We have a great topic today. Are you ready?
Sheldon
Are there macrobiotic foods? If not, then a macro person cannot be classified by what they eat.
Ginat
Good; Are there, indeed, macrobiotic foods?
Nicole
Hi everyone - I am new to this so bear with me
Klara
The purpose of a macrobiotic lifestyle is understanding how food affects life, and also how everything else affects life.
Ginat
But what is the purpose of that, Klara? Welcome, Nicole, and everyone else.
Chick
I think there are macrobiotic foods. The same as there are SAD foods.
Sheldon
Rice, beans and vegetables can hardly be classified as macrobiotic; if that is the case, food classification requires another means of measurement or understanding.
Nicole
I don't believe that there are macrobiotic foods - rather there are macrobiotic principles that govern all foods.
Chick
Foods are macrobiotic in the sense of how we, as macrobiotics, use them in our diet.
Vic
Tricky, indeed. I have considered myself to be living a macrobiotic lifestyle for 30 years -- does "being macrobiotic" mean I can get a disease like osteoporosis??? I have never "counted my milligrams" of calcium, I never thought about "absorbable calcium" and now I am humbled, and I sit here with a glass of organic milk and rice cakes! I don't know if there are folks out there age 50 something dealing with any osteoporosis issues?
Ginat
This is an important question...we touched on it last week, and it will continue to be relevant forever onwards. Why do "macrobiotic people” get sick? And again, what does it mean, then, to "be macrobiotic?"
Sheldon
I know a lot of people who eat brown rice but never heard of macrobiotics. Furthermore, why can't I eat so called non-macro foods and still be macro?
Chick
What do you consider non macro foods?
Ginat
Let's deal with one question at a time. First, what is the purpose of macrobiotics? Then, is there such a thing as "macrobiotic food?"
Nicole
For me – macrobiotics means WHAT IS NECESSARY- how can such a definition exclude or include any particular food type?
Ginat
Nicole, for what purpose do you practice "what is necessary"?
Nicole
FOR HEALTH
Ginat
Then health is your highest goal?
Chick
YES
Nicole
Not at all - but it is a prerequisite for attaining certain other goals
Sheldon
I don't believe there are non-macro foods. Sometimes I eat widely, and then try to balance it with wide opposites. If I continue to do this all the time it will affect my health. If I want to maintain a good condition, I need to moderate eating inside a relatively narrow range of yin and yang foods.
Klara
For me, macrobiotics is an adventure in discovery - a consciousness of the interplay of food and life
Ginat
Again, for what purpose?
Ginat
Yes, Nicole, can you elaborate further on your bigger dream? Why do you want to be a pure receptacle?
Nicole
*Smile* --- it's not a case of want. Its is a case of purpose - only if we are pure can we begin to help others.
Ginat
Got it! Agreed! We've just raised our level of consciousness to the fifth level, social judgment. Is there an even higher purpose of a macrobiotic way of life?
Nicole
Super consciousness is not on a higher level than social consciousness --- but we need social consciousness to maintain super-consciousness
Sheldon
Generally, health is my highest goal, but not always. Sometimes I push myself beyond my normal range of foods for social, emotional or other reasons. With the experience that I have accumulated, I generally do not do this too often or too extremely.
Klara
My goal is to get to a life full of joy, peace, fullness
Sheldon
What is joy, if not having the health to make wider choices, when desired, without having a serious reaction that follows.
Ginat
Don't get caught in semantics of better or worse. They are simply levels of being, Nicole. Let's focus once more on who is macrobiotic. Does it matter what one chooses to eat?
Nicole
Yes
Ginat
Then is macrobiotics defined by our diet?
Klara
To me joy is getting to see a bigger picture. Understanding more
Ginat
Yes—raising your level of understanding. Where does macrobiotics fit in with this?
Klara
it very much matters what one chooses to eat, especially how it affects him/her
Sheldon
We have free choice to choose whatever foods we want. What we need are tools to make these choices, and moderate them so that balance can be created and maintained.
Ginat
Let's be specific. WHO IS MACROBIOTIC? And what for?
Nicole
The important word being CHOOSES – macrobiotic food choices are obviously made with specific intent --- taking just one principle - compassion - we would choose foods which do not harm the environment, the ecology and the body......
Sheldon
That may be more or less of a problem depending on the person's condition and constitution.
Ginat
Good. Now we're getting somewhere. Nicole talks about the intent of our food. Klara knows that food affects us. So then, is macrobiotics about food choices rather than about specific foods?
Nicole
I can't see where you can separate the two.
Ginat
Good, Chick. The question is this: does macrobiotics mean eating brown rice, or does it mean recognizing the effect of brown rice and making a choice?
Leslie Ashburn
To me, someone who is macrobiotic is someone who applies macrobiotic principles to his/her life, not just with diet, but also thinking about one's environment in general
Leslie Ashburn
It's about consciously choosing, so I would say, 'food choices' not specific foods
Klara
This feels abstract, but I'm guessing everybody is macrobiotic, they just don't realize it - that is, all bodies try to come to some kind of balance. I think the crux is the realization and how to do it on purpose when someone can call himself macro.
Nicole
Mmm - it means thinking about the implications of eating brown rice and therefore - about HOW the brown rice is eaten
Linda
Macrobiotic is about LIFE CHOICES
Ginat
Yes, of course. But please be a bit more specific. Explain your idea, s'il vous plait.
Sheldon
Klara, I like what you say about doing it on purpose. In other words, making a conscious choice
Chick
I don't think everyone is macrobiotic. Certainly my diabetic son-in-law isn't.
Sheldon
I believe that a macrobiotic person is one that makes conscious choices based on the order of the universe according to yin and yang to achieve balance. I use the word conscious to differentiate between those who eat within macrobiotic guidelines because of their culture and those that do so because of what they have learned and understand.
Ginat
This is interesting. Is the bushman in New Guinea macrobiotic? Is everyone macrobiotic?
Leslie
Everyone seeks balance, but does everyone seek that balance consciously and intentionally? Perhaps that is the difference?
Ginat
Nice, Leslie. Then are you saying that macrobiotics is the conscious choice of food, activity, etc? Is the bushman not macrobiotic?
Leslie
It's just a fact of yin and yang. day turns to night, activity to rest... it's unavoidable. The bushman is not conscious of the fact, but yes, he is macrobiotic.
Klara
|Doesn't one need to experience it first before one can recognize the effect and then make the choice
Ginat
Experience is one way to learn. There are others....
Chick
How does one seek balance? I don't understand that.
Sheldon
Understanding yin and yang is so simple; applying it takes a lifetime of experience that improves more and more as time goes on.
Ginat
Then, Leslie, everyone is macrobiotic, whether they consciously apply yin/yang principles?
Sheldon
The bushman is not macrobiotic. He eats what is available to him. In a different environment he would eat what is available there without understanding that his new choices will not maintain his health.
Leslie
I think everyone is macrobiotic. We are all responsible for the outcome of our health.
Leslie
Sheldon, macrobiotic eating is locally, in season -- so why is the bushman not macro? He's in tune with nature around him/her
Linda
Probably the bush person is macrobiotic since they are living in harmony with their environment
Ginat
Here's a new question. Is the goal of macrobiotics to live a long life?
Klara
Now we're going back to whether health is the main purpose. I think it's one object, but may not be the only one.
Chick
It should help.
Klara
You asked if experience is the only way to learn. I believe we also learn from copying others, like our parents and our peers, in what we eat.
Ginat
Is that learning? or copying?
Sheldon
The bushman is doing what comes naturally with being a bushman. If what he eats maintains his health that is OK. But he doesn't have any awareness of principles of balance; put him in a different environment and will he still be macrobiotic. Of course not.
Leslie
I think macrobiotics means to live in the present, to be happy in the moment, and to create a strong consciousness, and not necessarily to live a long life. A long life might be a natural byproduct of living a healthy lifestyle and eating a healthy diet
Leslie
I think the bushman would have strong knowledge of balance, but not defined in the words we use
Ginat
If someone gets ill, meaning their application of yin and yang is off, are they "macrobiotic?
Leslie
Yes, they are macrobiotic, but there is still an imbalance occurring
Chick
I should think a long life would be a by product of a healthy life style.
Linda
For me the answer is NO about the length of life; the goal is to live a good quality life with a purpose
Sheldon
Leslie, I agree with you. I don't believe that a macro lifestyle necessarily has long life as a goal. Long life is a byproduct.
Klara
Living a long life seems lovely, but so does living a full life, and a life with great adventure.
Ginat
Yet, my macrobiotic teacher says that living a long life is indeed a goal of macrobiotics. We should all live long (and meaningful) lives.
Sheldon
I feel that quality of life is more purposeful than quantity.
Chick
Speaking from experience, being macro avoids some of the problems of old age.
Ginat
Wonderful, Chick!
Ginat
So one's skill at applying yin and yang does not determine if he is macrobiotic, yes or no?
Sheldon
I prefer to think of long life as a byproduct of good health rather than a goal. Macrobiotics seems to be a great means of achieving this if your practice is good in relation to your condition.
Chick
That is how we learned it.
Leslie
I think it's Pitchford who says that we can take good food and still distort our application based on our condition.
Klara
You mean you can give guarantees by "being macro."? I would like to hope that old age, good health does come from eating macrobiotic, but I still feel there's so many other factors that we may not understand.
Leslie
My sister started to try macrobiotics, and then was eating macro desserts 3 times a day. she asked why she didn't feel so well..... and when I suggested that it was the desserts, she said, "well, they're macrobiotic."
Ginat
My mother, who barely heard of the word macrobiotic, is in declining health. But she's still alive, and so in some sort of balance. Is she macrobiotic?
Sheldon
Skill is not a factor in determining if one is macro. Applying yin and yang is a factor. As experience accumulates, the application gets better and better, the skills improve, and the person enjoys the results more favorably.
Chick
I don't say that being macro means you have no problems in old age, because chances are you weren't macro all your life.
Ginat
Right, Chick. Now back to the issue of illness. As Sheldon says, the crux is in the application, not just the understanding, of principles.
Ginat
Ohsawa taught that theory without practice is useless. Practice without theory is dangerous.
Chick
But you will avoid some of the problems that non macros experience. I see other older people with regularity problems that I don't experience.
Ginat
Klara, Aihara says that food is only 5% of macrobiotics , yet the most important 5%.
Ginat
Macrobiotics to me means being flexible. Everything changes, and as natural beings, we are able to flow like water and dance with the wind. (How's that!)
Linda
Ginat, that was beautiful and poetic.
Sheldon
Flowing like water and dancing with the wind is pretty hard when you don't feel well.
Ginat
At one point, Sheldon and I decided that anyone who calls himself macrobiotic, is.
Ginat
Many people have a health consultation, buy rice, and don't think in terms of yin and yang. Are they macro?
Chick
It depends on what else they eat with that rice. I don't think in terms of yin and yang and I think I’m macro. I think in terms of balance.
Leslie
We have a restaurant here where I live that sells burritos. They call them macrobiotic, but they also have steak, salmon, and Chicken on their menu. The other macro person I know here and I get upset they call their food macrobiotic.... it gives people the wrong idea.... I wonder where that fits.
Klara
What happens when you are teaching and see something very blaringly off in the person's understanding, or in their diet - they can call themselves what they wish, but can you go back to the question of how people learn to get more aware of what they are doing?
Klara
I think of macro as a direction - if they do not yet have any understanding of yin and yang they are at the very beginnings of the direction. At least they are eating the rice and hopefully understanding something from the consultation.
Ginat
I'm humbled by your beautiful understanding. So, Klara asks, "How can we learn to be aware?" How about the silent chatters out there--John C, Sandra....
Sheldon
It takes time to think in terms of yin and yang. The concept is too new for most people and it takes time before the habit of a changing thinking-patterns sets in. Nevertheless, I wouldn't define a macro person on the basis of his thinking in terms of yin and yang as long as it is clear that he is headed in that direction.
Linda
Sheldon, today a lot of things have not been great, and I was not feeling well at all at the beginning of this chat, then when Ginat mentioned flowing like water, my mood changed and I fell great right now....things were not great...and I was NOT flowing
Ginat
How can we learn?
Tofupax
We try
Leslie
Read and study with someone good!
Ginat
These are two good ways. How do we know if someone, or a book, is good?
Linda
We listen to what they say, or what we read, then we apply it to our lives, and we see if it works or not
Ginat
Abraham says, "Words do not teach. Only experience teaches." Agree? ...How else do we learn?
Sandra
Agree totally.
Leslie
Keep a food journal
Ginat
Food journals are excellent.
Klara
What, we have to reinvent the wheel all by ourselves? We can't learn from others?????
Leslie
We all have favorite teachers and those who we did not learn from. So, I would fit that in with experience too.
Ginat
Is intention enough? Is it necessary. Sometimes we learn even when we resist, although it's a tough way to go.
Linda
Ginat I agree, we learn also when we resist...sometimes the lesson is faster.
Leslie
For me the way I learn best is by doing. Sometimes I have little conscious knowledge of yin/yang, yet at an underlying layer is a growing.
Sandra
Application is taking the wheel and getting it moving and that moving covers a road of experience.
Ginat
Let's summarize so far. Who is macrobiotic? --We all are? --The one who says he is? --The one who consciously applies yin and yang?
Leslie
All three options are macro!
Klara
Sometimes I am told something and it doesn't "sink in." Then I am told again and it just starts to make a dent. And sometimes I am really lucky and get an “aha” moment.
Linda
Klara, we need to "experience" it by ourselves, even if we learn it from others
Ginat
Good, Leslie. I like that idea. To me, again "being macro" means being open to change. It means saying yes. And the purpose of that????....What is the purpose?...
Ginat
....no takers on this $64,000 question?
Sandra
Growth...understanding...unlimited potential.
Ginat
But, Sandra, to what end?
John C
I think the best use of the term macrobiotic is to limit it to people who apply the tools. Not define it as a state of mind.
Ginat
John, it seems like we're saying there that there are various levels of macro practice, some using tools, some just being human.
John C
Okay
Klara
The purpose of saying yes, to being flexible, is to bring in the fullest of life that you can.
Ginat
Same question: Klara--why?
Linda
To me, being Macrobiotic means to live a happy, healthy life...in tune with the Universe
John C
|If we use such a broad definition then yin/yang aren't required, right? Or diet?
Ginat
There is macrobiotic understanding in one's thinking, and then there is application in ones life. Different levels of application. Different results.
Sandra
And when the final good night comes and I go gently into the netherworld I can say it was worth the trip.
Klara
Do you do it with a full heart, right away, just because that's what you want? or do you have to go through first a lot of hard learning, being bumped along the road of life, going through not feeling good sometimes as Linda mentioned.
Leslie
Saying yes is another way of being grateful and the universe opens up for us in new ways...
Sandra
To live a big life...a life with purpose and freedom.
Ginat
Yes, yes, yes.....and why, why, why?
Tofupax
That question is like asking what is the purpose of life itself...
Sheldon
Great idea--what is the purpose of life?
Sandra
Now that may take a whole month.
Ginat
Any last ideas for tonight?
Leslie
Thanks Ginat: for moderating. so happy to have caught part of this chat. I’ll check out the transcript when it's posted to see what I missed earlier.
Linda
The purpose of life is the purpose we give it
Ginat
Nice! Then it's totally personal, not universal.
John C
Thanks Ginat
Klara
Did we cover all ways of learning??
Ginat
I understand that there are 3 ways of learning--with a book, with a teacher, and by yourself. Interesting to think which is most yin, which most yang. We can practice yin/yang application next month as well.
Sandra
Thanks!
Linda
Ginat, the purpose we give to life is totally connected to the Universe, so it is both personal and Universal
Sandra
I think it is both and they are intertwined.
Waco Just Joined
Hello! Is the chat still on? He he, a little late! good evening everyone!
Ginat
Hello, Waco! That’s my family’s home town!
Ginat
It's such a pleasure pondering with you all. Thank you so very much. Let's gather again this time next month for our February chat.
John C
I would love to have examples of yin/yang that we can observe and analyze.
Gary
Thanks Ginat: for a great chat, and for everyone that attended.
Ginat
John, and everyone--please gather yin and yang questions for the group next time.
Gary
Next week will be a general chat at the same time, 2pm eastern. On February 15th will be a chat with Jessica Porter. That time will be a bit different—on a Wednesday evening at 8pm.
Ginat
Goodnight, everyone! Many thanks, and happy trails.
Sunday January 8th 2006
Why do Macrobiotic People Get Cancer?
A Moderated Chat Hosted by Ginat Rice
Ginat
Welcome, everyone, to Cyber Macro chat. Today's topic is, "Why do macrobiotic people get ill? In other words, does a macrobiotic life style guarantee health? First of all, we have to ask, "What does it mean to be macrobiotic. Let's get some ideas...anybody? Who's gotten sick out there, and why do you think you did?
klara
Macrobiotics is living consciously, with goals
LInda
I was very angry, and started to eat a lot of vegetarian junk food....plus a lot of cheese
Vic
I think a very good understanding of yin and yang is the prime ingredient for health, do you agree?
Ginat
Vic, what do you mean by this? How does a good understanding of yin and yang create/support health?
ardis
My question is: after going on a healing diet are we more susceptible to illness than before?
Ginat
Ideas, anyone? Are we more susceptible, or more sensitive to conditions that would otherwise be masked?
Vic
What about the mind/body connection?
GINAT
What about it? Give some ideas, Vic
Vic
I think it's all about choices, choices in food, lifestyle, friends, etc... yin and yang is everywhere in your life, it all has to do with balance,
Cool_Dude
Maybe macros get sick because they are arrogant thinking the can eat anything because after all "I'm Macrobiotic! Therefore I can eat anything without any consequences!"
Vic
That's the Supreme level, and we're probably not there yet
sally
I’m not sick now, but would like to know what to do to continue being healthy
GINAT
Sally, let's talk about what health is in order to know how to maintain it. What does it mean to be healthy?
Cool_Dude
And maybe when we think we are there, we are not there, yet!
milli
I think that very few 'macro' people get it right - they are often more unbalanced than 'normal' people
klara
Or more worried about it than normal people??!!
ardis
Cool Dude has a good point. Macros think they know how to balance, so an indiscretion can be righted by a remedy or eating something on the other extreme.
Vic
Because it may take years to get it right
jane
It seems to me that the lack of macro snacks is a major problem in making reasonable choices in real life.
GINAT
So now we have to address cooking issues. What other problems do people encounter?
Borya
It’s not all about just cooking
deb2000
Shalom all, perhaps because planning meals takes so much thought, so much mind energy, so much of our conscience...it is draining?
Encountering people, now that's a problem!
Borya
Your lifestyle, sleep, mood
GINAT
Let's talk about the idea of supreme judgment being somewhere far away
Borya
It all relates to being healthy
GINAT
What is supreme judgment? How do we realize it? Is it a distant goal?
Hey you guys! Supreme Judgment is over here! Not over there!
klara
No goal is accomplished just like that - that's for the instant society. We go up, down and hopefully more up than down
hazel
What part does genetics play
GINAT
Genetics is what we call constitution. It makes a big difference in healing. But we still need to address basic questions. Let's stay on track here. What is health?
lillian
What do you mean by supreme judgment?
Mamie
Sometimes it seems to me that relying on Michio or Herman, may his memory be a blessing, or ideas of what is good healing food and what is unbalancing food can take us away from our own ability to make judgments. Makes life complicated and "health" a goal instead of a present condition that ebbs
klara
Being fully alive?
LInda
I find that the food I eat most certainly affects my level of judgment
lillian
I do not understand what you mean by health and supreme judgment
GINAT
OK, at last. What is health? What is supreme judgment? Let's just focus on this for a moment...responses?
sandra
Health is the ultimate freedom..it allows us to do everything else.
Vic
Right on
milli
We must not rely on Michio or Herman, but rather embrace their experience and suggestions and then experiment and practice for ourselves. Listen to YOUR body and then adjust accordingly.
Vic
If we all strive towards supreme judgment, it then becomes a lifestyle, rather than a "diet"
GINAT
So, back to, "What is macrobiotics?" A diet? A lifestyle?
Borya
Being able to take control of your life by achieving balance with nature
Mamie
I like the idea that "health" may be "Wholeness" Which doesn't necessarily mean macrobiotics if that leads you to feel separate from yourself.
Vic
As noted throughout the years, "macrobiotics" is different for everyone
Cool_Dude
Where do feelings fit in the world of judgment?
GINAT
Macrobiotics is, clearly a life style. So it includes magic bullet foods, genetics, emotions, ideas....and supreme judgment, among all the other levels. Let's talk about that part.
lillian
Health is balance for me.. It is an every day condition and it is not only about what I eat but how I feel and both seem to be quite connected. It is not a permanent state
GINAT
Very good!
klara
Does separate from yourself mean being not honest?
GINAT
Nice question. How can you be separate from yourself? Of course personal dishonesty is a separation... Macrobiotics for me is a discipline that is structured so that I can begin to see the whole picture. It is a looking glass.
Cool_Dude(Q)
Is macrobiotic a means of judging, not just ourselves but everything including other people?
GINAT
We talk a lot about levels of judgment....yet it's not a kind of judging and criticizing. I prefer to call them levels of consciousness.
LInda
Health is feeling balance in one's life
ardis
Health is not a static condition. I imagine that being healthy is feeling joyful and alive in one's body and emotional state. As Alex Jack said in a class: We are either going toward or away from health.
Cool_Dude
Levels suggest discrimination, "I'm better than you because I'm on a higher level! or "You'll do what I say because I have higher judgment than you!"
Vic
Levels of "judgment" was a word coined by Ohsawa, I agree, levels of consciousness sounds much better
Vic
Quality food is where it's at -
GINAT
So what do you do if you don't have quality food???
Vic
How can you not have quality food?
ardis
Macrobiotics gives us the tools with which we can take responsibility for ourselves on all levels.
GINAT
Let's talk more grounded here....what are the tools? What does it mean to take responsibility. And most of all--why then do so-called macrobiotic people get sick?
klara
Lead me not into temptation!!!, Vic!!
klara
We talk about the levels of consciousness but till we truly experience them how can we know them
GINAT
We ARE different levels of consciousness. We just need to tune in, rather than tuning out. It's what you said about being honest, not disconnected from ourselves
Cool_Dude
Taking responsibility does not mean judging or attacking other people!
Vic
Maybe it's all about studying
ardis
You chew 200 times, practice deep breathing and chant.
GINAT
Yes, we know....be personal with all this. How does it help you? What does it give you?
Vic:
Food is just one part...how we think, how we chew, what we do, how we think is all a reflection of our reality.
GINAT
So, then, what is health?
Vic
Balance
Cool_Dude
We don’t get peace by enforcing control over other, instead by practicing a peaceful life!
LInda
Vic, I moved to Mexico recently, and it is very difficult to find good quality food....in New York was all over the place
GINAT
Yes, in Israel too, there is much less available than in NY. Health, to me, means that everything is OK. Less food, more food, comfort, discomfort....everything is truly OK. Total flexibility.
Vic
Perhaps if good quality food is not available where you live you will have to mail order it - that's what I had to do years ago, luckily times have changed.
klara
If everything is ok, where do goals come in?
GINAT
Nice! We have goals--say, health--and it's ok if they are fulfilled or not. Can you really embrace this idea?
sandra
Health is feeling good, feeling joy and confident that we can meet our daily demands.
lillian
We are all human beings..nothing can make you pure, clean and exempt from illness.. It is more about what you do if you get sick, how you deal with it, what tools you rather use and what your instinct tells you..learning to be in touch with oneself is quite a challenge for me every day
GINAT
This is a nice comment. Yes, even spiritual people get ill. Why is this?
Borya
Yes, if you are happy your are probably healthy
chatcat27
So what causes illness or disease - It's not just about the food / diet; it's all the components, is it not?
sandra
I believe it all starts in our minds. How we use what we have is our choice.
Mamie
Then even illness could fit the overall picture of health--yes?
GINAT
Now you're getting it! So what do we need to do to integrate all these many componants..to be honest and whole?
GINAT
Wonderful insight! I have a friend whose body is still ill, but she is healed. Can this be?
klara
Because she accepts her illness?? So what does being ill mean??
GINAT
Here's my definition of health: Balance. Illness then is imbalance. It's as simple as that.
klara
Isn't arrogance the biggest illness? Isn't it arrogant to think we can control everything about our bodies??
GINAT
Absolutely
jane
Is the purpose of life to be healthy?
GINAT
Is it for you? Isn't health a means to a bigger goal?
Cool_Dude
Osawa ate potatoes in prison, poor quality food. Did it benefit him? Was he healthy? He almost lost his eyesight from that experience!
Klara
So why are we trying? I mean aren't we trying?
GINAT
Deepak Chopra calls trying a cultural virus. We really get the most done when we are the stillest and deepest, like the organization of the cosmos, still and silent.
LInda
Ginat, being personal about this, taking full responsibility gives me total freedom
chatcat27
So we can correct the imbalance once recognized.
chatcat27
It's about practice. It's the lifestyle. Is your friend healed? I want to know why spiritual people get ill. I want to know why someone who follows the diet to a T gets ill. Is there an answer forthcoming?
GINAT
OK, let's get down to it. We can call my friend healed, or we can call her sick. The same for Michio. Spiritual people, like all people, get sick because there is some imbalance inherent in life. So they reach a bump and have to get over it. Next, we have to ask what it means to practice to a T....
lillian
I am going through a breast cancer experience right now... I have chosen not to do the regular therapies, I refused chemotherapy and radio therapy and I have had to confront a lot of fear of not following the rules "established". I rather decided to do alternative things like changing my eating habits, and paying close attention to my body and my needs.. Just like when doctors think they have the truth and the power to predict an outcome, following "anything that makes you feel you are "above and over it all" is as tricky and dangerous
Cool_Dude
Everyone who walks someplace is balanced until they can't walk anymore! Walking and running are balancing actions! Falling down is due to imbalance! And eventually everyone reaches that point!
klara
So can you be balanced if your body is in disease??
GINAT
The body and the mind are one, yet respond at different rates. So yes, you can be balanced and still diseased, or imbalanced without physical symptoms (yet). What indeed is balance?
Vic
Linda, I like that - taking full responsibility gives me total freedom
jane
I think the purpose of life is to do good in the world, and health is helpful, but not necessary.
GINAT
So, what is balance? It's clearly not a static state of being... Is balance happiness?
Cool_Dude
Vic, taking total responsibility for you, gives you total freedom but what about taking total freedom for others?
klara
I like what Jane said yet am still confused. Don't we all want to be healthy? Free of disease?
GINAT
No, being free of disease is not the biggest purpose. Michio knew what he was creating. His goals were different than his health.
chatcat27
Balance - diet, sunlight, sleep, meditation, emotions, etc. Not extremes but balance.
chatcat27
We need contrast to know.
LInda
Ginat, balance is moving up and down staying close to the center.....not major up and down jumps
GINAT
No, this is being centered. Even Evil Keneival was balanced. How do we achieve balance? Macrobiotics provides us the key--right under our noses. And, yes, our minds, in understanding yin and yang.
lillian
Balance is learning to use your mind, food, support, etc.. to achieve a state of well being wherever you are. It is not a goal, it is a path..Like happiness is not a state but a condition
klara
I don't think balance and happiness are the same. Balance is going back and forth amongst different states, so sometimes happiness, sometimes sadness
GINAT
Bravo
Vic
That's an automatic - when you take total responsibility for yourself - - that's all you really need to do right now
GINAT
Yes, but....can you give a personal example? Let's get practical a bit. People still want to heal serious illnesses.
klara
Balance--anything can be thrown at you and you don't fall?
GINAT
No, sometimes you do fall. THEN you get back up. I fell.
chatcat27
It certainly is a path but does that mean that's the answer to: If imbalance causes dis-ease than how to we achieve and maintain balance. Is there a secret.
GINAT
I like your direct questions. Yes, there is a secret, and as I said it's under your nose and above your eyebrows--our mouth and our minds. Ohsawa said: theory without practice is useless and practice without theory is dangerous.
sarelsen
So the very first sentence on the back of my copy of kushi's the macrobiotic way is: "More than 40 years ago, Michio Kushi recognized that improper diet was a principal cause of many illnesses, including cancer. " macrobiotics is definitely "sold" as a disease prevention/cure. is this false advertising
chatcat27
How did you fall Ginat?
GINAT
Chatcat, thanks for a practical question. After 20 years of macrobiotic practice, and even counseling others to health, I developed breast cancer. It threw me for a loop. I went deep inside to heal it, and learned a ton. You can read my story on our website if you like--www.TheRiceHouse.com. Wait a bit, we're still under construction.
Vic
The strongest of all of us are the ones the fall and get back up again, so, you, Ginat, are the strength of our group.
GINAT
Thank you....thank you
lillian
Learning to be flexible with life’s uncertainties and knowing you are not in control of your life, as if you are untouchable if you do this or the other, or safe if you follow this diet..are two main issues I am facing with my breast cancer and my choices..
Cool_Dude
Ginat, isn't balance a constantly changing state?
GINAT
Of course it is. That means that we are constantly changing. This is the state of health--flexibility. Everything's ok. This is nature. We have desires and we let them go just as easily. Ohsawa's mantra was, "Everything's ok." Can you really mean that? Can you say yes to everything???
Vic
What has been stated before in macrobiotic literature was the fact that Michio and Herman were oriental and this diet that they brought to the US was not for Americans - it was too yang.
GINAT
Perhaps...so we've changed and evolved. Israeli macrobiotics is not the same as, say, Australia. Today I eat differently than I did yesterday. Now I am yang, tomorrow perhaps I'll be yin. So I flow...
Mamie
Isn't is Rainier Marie Rilke who said, We learn to live the questions and we may someday live our way to the answers?
klara
I feel great resistance to say yes to anger, hurtfulness, and other negative emotions. I feel I don't want them in my life.
GINAT
Your honesty is always so very refreshing, Klara. Hat's off. Practice saying yes to hurt, to unwelcome events, to "negativity." Then it's not negative. Say yes to life. It's quite a discipline.
Vic
Yes, going with flow - as Michio always says "Please enjoy:
Cool_Dude
Also isn't constant and change both components of everything, like yang and yin?
GINAT
Constancy and change...nice. The only constant is change...far out, cool dude!
LInda
Ginat, I must accept that I am not that flexible, truly, deep in my heart I can not say YES to everything
GINAT
Your honesty is the first step there. There's no where else to begin other than where you are. We can all do it. The magic ingredient--our diet. It's what everyone else forgets when they want to be spiritual.
jane
My impression is that even in the macrobiotic literature, it is important to have a connection with some larger force outside yourself.
GINAT
Absolutely. THAT is the point of wellness, or perhaps we can say that that is wellness. Being connected. Being whole.
mikef
Balance is a result of proper energy input into our mind/body/spirit. Most critical source is the food we eat but we also get from other sources around us - sun, radiation, weather, seasons, etc. The challenge is feeling when all are in sync. Getting ill is missing some aspect of keeping balanced. Illness tells us that we need to examine our daily life activities to see where we slipped off to too yin or too yang
sandra
Separation....the belief that we stand alone is a major function of imbalance. Knowledge that we are all connected through infinite and universal mind is to court balance. Is Yin and Yang balance perhaps knowing we are one part of one whole?
lillian
I can only say "everything is ok" on a daily basis... sometimes not the whole day... but that makes me wonder when I will embrace it all as ok..It is quite a chllenge..Taking an illness as an opportunity to redefine a life.. and an opportunity to grow.. Knowing nothing is permanent and that is ok...life and death dancing together.. Death of old habits,
GINAT
You are balanced all the time...just sometimes you forget.
chatcat27(Q)
I got out of the chatroom when I went to read your story. I merely scanned it since I didn't really want to leave the chat room. I will read your story later, however what I am picking up on is that it's certainly not just diet, it's like the spokes of a wheel and if one's broken it effects the integrity of the whole. There are lots of components, clearly our emotional health is one.
ardis(Q)
"Everything’s OK" That sounds like a good antidote to one of modern man's dilemmas: stress, which they are finding causes a lot of illness.
GINAT
Stress is what, yin or yang?
chatcat27
Yang?
ardis(Q)
In mb terms stress would be yang, extreme concentrated energy, totally off balance. Stress is countered with extreme yin in modern culture: drugs, alcohol, sugar.
chatcat27(Q)
How to find balance if we don't know out-of-balance.
GINAT
You know. You are unhappy, unwell, un-whatever. And if you don't know, don't worry. Just wait. It will get worse. Eventually it becomes physical, and then we know for sure. Then we have to go inward to find the glitch, and allow it so we can face it.
GINAT
You are all right--stress is a yang factor, although not necessarily totally off-balance...maybe just a bit. Some stress can be helpful even to get us going. I have stress now answering all these great comments, and I'm feeling great. I couldn't keep it up all night though.
chatcat27
You are doing excellent. This is a great forum. Thank you.
Cool_Dude(Q)
Again are you talking about stress being the cause or the product (yin or yang)?
GINAT
We are talking macrobiotic terms here--stress is a yang factor, creating a yang condition. clear?
lillian(C)
I think gratitude helps me find balance more than any other thing
sandra
Lillian, I too find gratitude to be a source of satisfaction. Helps the bumps smooth out.
klara
Gratitude is better than any medicine doctors have yet to fine. Puts you in a different consciousness of everything
Vic
Yes, gratitude, I'm glad you brought that up Lillian, being thankful for everything in our lives help
LInda(C)
Sandra and Lillian: When I changed my anger to Gratitude, my whole existence changed
sarelsen(Q)
Are you saying happy=balanced/unhappy=unbalanced?
GINAT
Yes. Do you agree?
sandra
There is a wonderful online site : GoGratitude. It is very uplifting. Also she sends you little reminders on how gratitude changes you..
lillian(Q)
It even helps to see the bumps as chances to grow...
GINAT
Indeed
Vic(C)
Yes, gratitude, I'm glad you brought that up, Lillian, being thankful for everything in our lives helps
GINAT
Have we answered the question? Is there any unfinished business? Why do "macrobiotic" people get sick? I think it's because they lack balance on some level. They still have challenges, like everyone.
lillian
Because we can never have a 100 % balance
GINAT
And yes, their macrobiotic life style may be off. It's not everything, but it's a big part. In a sense, we all have 100% balance, meaning that we are all alive.
sandra
Macrobiotic people get sick because we rely on something outside of ourselves. It all starts on the inside...our thoughts create our reality. Fear, number one devil.
GINAT
Yes, Gerald Jampolsky says there are two emotions--love and fear.
Vic
There are so many great macrobiotic articles/workshops, pamphlets, etc... that are old and out of print, but oh so informative and interesting to study - hopefully they are still available out there.?
Gary(Q)
Do you feel that there is a big role for macrobiotic counselors to guide us to balance
GINAT
I'm so glad you asked this. This is the main thrust of my counseling and guiding. It is essential. I teach cooking, and I teach how to feel, to think, to allow.
klara(C)
Wasn't fear learned? Doesn't it need to be unlearned?
chatcat27(Q)
For me, definitely one of the keys is to be in a nurturing environment and practice, practice, meditation and diet.
GINAT
Yes, this helps. Then we need to slowly learn to maintain it when conditions are harder. My students always have access to me for encouragement and support.
lillian
I think we are all human beings and we are here to learn, even if we are balanced because we are alive, you are human you go thru all emotions and states of mind and you would be perfect and therefore not human if you had all factors in control . the only language we understand that promotes change
Cool_Dude(Q)
One famous macrobiotic cooking teacher, cookbook writer, loved by many was said to binge on fried bread!
GINAT
There's a good issue. Our beloved teacher ate jelly doughnuts. It was his choice for what he wanted to create in his life. We are free beings, thank God
sandra
I think we have to be vigilant of our thoughts. Our conscious mind must be the watchdog of what we interpret as truth
LInda(C)
Fear is learned Klara, and I think one way to unlearn it is by having our liver, and our kidneys working properly
LInda(C)
Yes Sandra, I agree that our thoughts create our reality......and what goes inside our mouths create part if not all of our thoughts
Pascal_Carlier
What for me has always been a key to joy, health and happiness is changing habits often. Always renewing yourself and enjoying different things...
chatcat27(C)
The secret or answer to live in nurturing place must start from the inside. We all need compassion. Letting go and healing of the fears and anger -- yes learned. Yes, I agree to, our thoughts create our reality.
sandra
Linda, I totally agree that what goes in creates our environment. Thoughts, food, experience, lifestyle.
GINAT
I think we've learned a lot from each other tonight. It's a great supportive group. We have a wonderful support group here in Jerusalem. It's so important. I met a man once who knew no other macrobiotic people, so he opened a free dinner party once a week at his home to attract people. It worked! Macrobiotics means always finding a way
Vic
Thank you, Ginat.
Pascal_Carlier
I like that one (macrobiotics means always finding a way). Thanks Ginat, P.
Cool_Dude(Q)
Maybe feeding your unfriendly neighbors will bring true peace to your region!
GINAT
Insha'alah!
klara(Q)
If all is to be accepted, then what do you do with thoughts you think cause dis-ease?
GINAT
Look at them. Choose them. Release them. Allow them. ...
Linda
If any of you know people in Mexico, please let me know. I am trying to make a support group over here.
sandra
What is the best way to learn Yin and Yang?
GINAT
In my opinion, there are three ways. 1. Study with a teacher. 2. Read books. 3. Sit quietly and meditate.
Pascal_Carlier
4. Go out and dance
Linda
Ginat, for me this has been a great support group. Thank for you for your commitment, love and energy
GINAT
Thank you all. It's a love fest. Macrobiotics is such a gift to the world. We thank our jelly doughnut leader.
chatcat27
Thanks Ginat for this opportunity.
Gary
Thanks for making our first Sunday chat so perfect!
Cool_Dude
Ginat, will Rice House also include your research project?
GINAT
Absolutely. It's going to be an amazing site. I hope to make it a living macro directory.
sandra
I look forward to seeing your site when it's done. Blessings to all. and Thank you Ginat.
klara
It was a pleasure sharing with all of you, and Ginat, what's left to say. We love you.
GINAT
I am compiling a book of interviews by people who have gotten ill and then healed. It's a powerful work.
Gary
Let's join back here next week for a general chat
GINAT
Thank you everyone. I had a wonderful time. See you all next week!
Why Don’t People Do What They Say They Want to Do?
Write what it is that you want in two pages; Now write what it is that you want in two sentences.
Why have you not achieved the goal that you have stated? What could you be doing differently than you are now? Why don’t we see that there is another possibility?
Why do we give up? Why do we complain? Why do we resist?What is the difficulty with this sentimental view of life?
These lower levels of judgment are a partial view wherein we are seeking gratification or accomplishment. We must accept the whole package of life, not just the parts we like We can’t always feel good or do/have what we like.
Make an active choice not to reject or resist, but to allow and direct attention. Accept and embrace ourselves without giving moral value.
Recognize that nothing is so important; nothing can take away the pleasure in my life.
In peace time, war is present, but we focus on the peace.
Chat transcript, Ginat Rice at CyberMacro, May 28.
Why Don’t People Do What They Say They Want to Do?
Ginat: Let's begin! The question for today is why people don't do what they say they want to do. First of all, let's discuss for ourselves what things we want to work on, and yet somehow don't...
Sheldon: Sometimes we imagine that what we said has already been done.
Ginat: Gary, Sheldon--what issues are up for you guys?
Sheldon: Why do I love to eat so much?
Ginat: We're talking about issues we want to improve, yet somehow don't. Sheldon asks why he loves to eat! Do you others have an issue to share?
gxpark1234: I’m still working on my eyes to heal..
Sheldon: Am I attracted to the food or do I just love to use my mouth and hands? Sometimes one and sometimes the other and sometimes both.
Ginat: Do you want to share with us, Gx, what you've been doing? Sheldon--maybe you should take up pipe smoking.
Sheldon: The problem is that I sometimes like to eat after I have just finished eating. I actually smoked a pipe at one time in my life, but then I gave up all forms of tobacco.
gxpark1234: Ginat as you know about my sanpaku eyes.. I'm just really trying to eat healthy and live a macrobiotic lifestyle
Ginat: Is eating as much a habit as smoking, Sheldon? Gx, can I push you to explain more in detail what you are doing? Are you getting any results?
Sheldon: No. the need to eat is not consistent; I can go many days sometimes with being satisfied with my regular meals. With tobacco I couldn't stay away for more than a very short time.
gxpark1234: Sure.. I’m eating very healthy now.. I gave up sugar, milk, most meats.. I've been sleeping before midnight. and walk when I can.. I also been trying to stay off the computer / TV... that’s really it
Ginat: Any results, Gx?
gxpark1234: I can feel this energy around my eyes trying to go back.. but nothing significant
Sheldon: Actually, the whole issue is in balance. When I am in balance, I don't feel a need for more food; when I am not, I get too yang and keep reaching out for something more to yinnize my condition.
gxpark1234: So Ginat, I just don’t know what else to do..
Ginat: OK, so there's some movement then Gx. It's good you can feel energy. Sheldon, how do you create balance? You seem to lose it sometimes. Is it controllable?
Sheldon: It is controllable, but that means using will power to maintain control. When I am in balance, I don't need will power; I just feel good without any urges for more.
gxpark1234: Yes I can feel energy.. but there’s still cracking inside and behind my eyes.. I guess I have to be more patient Ginat??
Ginat: But my question is Sheldon: How do you get in or out of balance? Gx, I need to know a lot more about what you're eating and thinking. And of course, patience is needed, but also progress.
gxpark1234: Well today I ate brown rice, romaine lettuce, carrot and a few pieces of hotdog..
Sheldon: Awareness of what I eat. Yin desserts; keep away from stress; relax more; keep busy instead of thinking about food; walk; exercise--it all helps
Ginat: Sheldon--how do you know (or feel) that your food and activities are in balance, or not? Why do they get imbalanced?
gxpark1234: Ginat, my question is .. and I probably already asked this.. but it boggles my mind on why my right eye shifted up and expanded and my left eye shifted down and became smaller(iris)
Ginat: Gx--Have you contacted a counselor yet? The hot dogs may be slowing you down a bit.
Sheldon: Often I am OK until after the first bite of whatever. for example this evening we sat with friends who kept filling up a bowl of nuts. I could easily have avoided the nuts to begin with as I was in balance after a delicious supper--but NO-- I had to start. Once started, I was off and running.
Ginat: So it comes back after all to will power?
gxpark1234: Yes I’ve talked to Gabrielle Kushi and she really didn’t know if macrobiotics was the cure.. but she told me she would help .. the problem is .. I have no money..
Ginat: Then let's work on money issues. Premise: There is ALWAYS enough money.
Sheldon: Not really. Will power would be needed to stop eating the nuts after I started to eat them. Before I started there was no need to use will power; I was relaxed and fine.
gxpark1234: Ginat, did my eyes shift and cause the muscles around my eyes to shift??
Ginat: Sheldon--will power could have stopped the first bite. After that, it gets harder. If you didn't want to eat, then why did you (we)? No, Gx, the eye shift and muscle change came together from a too-yang condition. Why don't you make more changes according to the standard macrobiotic diet?
gxpark1234: ok..
Sheldon: I didn't say that I didn't want to eat. I simply allowed myself to eat. At some level it was part of the socializing to partake of what was offered. For example, when I smoked, I was OK when I stopped, until the first puff; then I went out and bought a carton.
Ginat: It sounds similar to me, although quantitatively different. One bite or puff and it's hard to stop.
Sheldon: That's right; it is hard to stop after the first puff or bite because immediately an imbalance is created.
gxpark1234: Ginat, should I just do a brown rice fast?? will it help me improve faster??
Ginat: So back to the original question--why don't we do what we say we want to do? Gx, same question for you? If you want to do a rice diet, don't ask my opinion--try it and see.
gxpark1234: ok .. ill try thank u
Klara: Sheldon, you have burst a huge bubble for me. I thought if I ate the way you guys ate, I'd be on top of the world. So I'm thinking it's a LOT more than food - it's all the other issues of life we need to reflect on and see in a new light.
Sheldon: I must confess that when I do eat more than I need I may not feel so OK, but I never regret it or feel pangs of guilt. I just start over again the next day. I do self reflect, however, to try to learn from the experience, but I don't sulk over it.
Klara: I asked at our first chat, how much is habit that we slip so easily into again? the eating whatever is in front of your eyes
Ginat: Sheldon, share some more of your self reflection. Why do you do what you'd prefer you don't do? [Sheldon's on the phone....] Any one else out there doing things they wish they didn't, or not doing what they wish they were? Klara--it must be hard for you to see macrobiotic people get sick, or have difficulties, or be less than perfect. Are macro people less than human? By making us more than human you actually de-humanize us.
jayneau: Yes. Sometimes I find it such a chore to do mb cooking. But once I'm in the swing, it's OK. It's the getting started that's hard for me.
Sheldon: There is a big gap between the intellectual me that says what I should or shouldn't be doing, and the sensorial me that says go for it; what the heck--you only live once.
Klara: I think I know my own answer - I realize I'm eating better than I used to - less garbage and less overeating, but the change is very slow. Perhaps slower than my head wishes - so perhaps the question needs to be fine tuned a little - why does my head want me to go faster than my body already is?
Ginat: Jayn, how do you self-talk yourself into the kitchen when you are resisting? What do you do to convince yourself?
Sheldon: Klara you idealize what should or shouldn't be; just allow and let things flow.
Ginat: Sheldon--stop lecturing! Tell us more about the gap between head and mouth.
jayneau: I usually just make myself put the rice on. Then once the rice is going, I feel I must cook something else to go along with it. That's how I get myself moving.
Ginat: Klara--why then do you go slower than you think you'd like? You are making progress, but you are not satisfied? So why do you hold back? So you make an active choice to start with the rice Jayneau, and it flows from there. Good method!
Sheldon: What helps me the most is constantly communicating the issues of overeating. Even when I am resisting the lecture of what I should or shouldn't be doing, the message penetrates and helps a great deal--till the next time.
Ginat: So you recognize what you are doing, Sheldon, reject guilt, and keep practicing. Good!
Sheldon: Of course I recognize it. If I didn't I wouldn't bring up the subject on this chat or any other time.
Ginat: These methods of be aware, choosing a response, and recognizing progress are true macrobiotic thinking, unifying rather than rejecting opposites. In other words, war is present in peace time, but we choose not to focus on it. Weakness is there, but we focus on strengths.
Klara(C): Actually, it's inspiring for me to realize everyone has their own challenges - I'm much more at ease when I realize I'm with human beings, not gods
Klara(C): I don't think my issue is about holding back (though you may be right, I'll have to think more about it), but the issue more about not being satisfied
Ginat: Accept and embrace ourselves without assigning moral value of good (or good enough), bad, right, wrong.... So what are we learning? First, to make an active choice. Second, nothing can take away my own pleasure in my life. Third, front and back both always exist. We choose to focus on the one we want.
Sara: It seems that in order to feel really good about ourselves and embrace ourselves and others we need to be relaxed from the inside out
Ginat: I've come more and more to define health and happiness as relaxation. I think you are right on target, Sara. How do we each relax? This is a key!
Sheldon: We don't always focus on anything in particular. Most of life's activities just happen without forethought or coming from an intellectual level or deep thought. It is a process of just being and allowing and accepting and enjoying.
Sara: Focusing on the one we want, how to choose to look at something requires a determination to put attention on the way that feels better is accurate from a broader perceptive, then the relaxation comes because it resonates
Ginat: Sheldon, this is a sentimental level of consciousness, just letting life flow. Sometimes we want to pay specific attention when things are not quite as we'd like them. Good, Sara--we make an active decision.
jayneau: I've got to learn to be pro-active instead of reactive. To make things happen, rather than just letting things happen and then reacting.
Ginat: Can you give us an example?
Sara: to make the active decision of choosing a particular focus can be done if there is a belief of benefit- one has to understand the principles and laws to be motivated to find better choices
Sheldon: What's wrong with being sentimental sometimes. Is it necessary to deeply philosophize all the time on all issues and all things. Sometimes I just want to relax and not think so much, and simply accept what is without deep thought.
Ginat: Sheldon, you exaggerate. I said that sometimes floating down steam doesn't serve us, such as when we want to make changes. At those times we chose not to reject or resist, but to allow and direct attention. Sara, do you have any specific examples?
Sara: We get to choose our own timing, a step forward, a regrouping or a step ahead, its all at the speed that we choose
Klara(Q): I'm working on allowing more "quiet time" between what jumps into my head and what I allow to go out to the universe.
Ginat(A): Yes, you've been practicing this for some time now. Are you pleased with your progress? Has it helped you? How can we be satisfied with ourselves and at the same time want more? This is always the balance I seek to discover.
Klara(Q): It's amazing! I see I don't have to "control" everything, that I can allow, but best of all, I see life flows more easily
Ginat(A): I'm so encouraged to hear this! So you are choosing to relax consciously. Great tip for all of us!
Sheldon: Self reflect and find joy with what is. At the same time, strive for more but don't be disappointed if you don't achieve all that you dream. Keep dreaming and keep striving but keep a level head.
jayneau: I guess it's accepting the here and now for what it is, yet doing what we can to achieve what we want in the future.
Ginat: So it's a two-tiered approach--accept and don't accept? I get too intellectual about it I think.
Sara(C): I like to feel my through all this. I have to know that I deserve more because that’s the nature of expansion, and also that its just right the way it is now
Ginat: Nice thought, Klara
Sara: I’ve learned that we cant really move toward what we want ahead until we make peace with the now, make the best of right here, right now, with these people in my life
Ginat: How do you make peace when you want more?
Sara: You hold a vision more in a playful way, have fun with it, yet don’t allow the emotion to feel the lack of it not being here right now
Alandra: Are making peace and wanting more mutually exclusive?
Sheldon: Wanting more is a natural process; otherwise you stagnate and even recede. What you feel when you don't get the "more" is the issue here. What I am saying, is: keep desiring more, but allow for the possibility that it won't materialize.
Ginat: Yes, now I see! Wanting is emotional level; accepting is unifying. So they are not exclusive, but different.
Sheldon: Excellent
snoopybd7: Do you think macrobiotics causes more difficulties in the area of satisfaction or wanting more than people who are not macro?
Sara: The more is in multiple areas such as health, relationships, creativity etc. sometimes one area is thriving and another is stuck or getting better, shifting the attention to the area that is pleasing is appreciation, that can seep over to the area that feels less satisfying
Ginat: Does macrobiotics causes more difficulties in the area of satisfaction or wanting more than for non-mbs? Maybe so.
Sheldon: Macrobiotics allows one to maximize the pleasures that life has to offer in a more optimal way. This is so because of the stronger energies available.
Ginat: Let's conclude. Can we have a concluding statement from each person? What have you learned today from our chat?
Gary: That we are all human and none of us is perfect
Sara: Nice to see the synchronicity of ideas
Alandra: Eating grains allows me to more easily accept what is.
Sheldon: Allowing is such an important aspect of peace of mind, love, and joy
snoopybd7: Macrobiotics can be very complex at times
Kirk Day: Reflection is key to change thinking. How do you value the techniques for changing the sub-conscious (affirmations, etc.)?
Ginat: Like Michio, I am clearly in favor of any holistic method to clarify our thinking. The criterion is that the method unify opposites. I don't try to affirm something if it means rejecting it's opposite.
Klara: I learned that consciousness is indeed the key
Kirk Day: Communicating with other macrobiotic people is fun!
Klara: I’m in total agreement with you, Kirk
snoopybd7: It’s something you don’t get to do everyday.
Ginat: Everyone has answered. I learned a lot from this chat, and enjoyed it. I learned that we can have a pleasant time and develop friendship! Thank you all so much!
Kirk Day: Sorry I got distracted and came in late. Thanks, this is my first time on this chat.
Sara: Thanks all
Gary: Thanks Ginat and Sheldon!
snoopybd7: Thanks
Ginat: Goodbye, everyone, till next time. Come again, Kirk, Alandra, and all others! See you next time!
Comments:
Hi Ginat and Sheldon,
I just read the chat transcript - that was great - you really orchestrate it well Ginat - the flow is great and focused and dynamic. Loved the ways you guys interacted too - that was gorgeous! :-)
About the topic - in Access, a kind of multi-dimensional way of self reflecting and owning your infiniteness, they recommend asking the question (always ask the question and live in the question) when something good happens and when something 'bad" happens - how does it get any better than this?
This can have quite some dramatic effects - I did experience that once quite dramatically.
They also say to see everything with an attitude of interesting point of view (IPOV)
I think the key is gratitude - when we are truly thankful for what we have then we naturally invite more...of course it it a lot easier to feel gratitude when we feel balanced and our liver chi is humming along nicely!
-- Ilanit Tof